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Jay Dyer accuses the Orthodox Fathers of analogia fidae
By James Kelley | August 8, 2008
Jay posted this on his site:
Do you think the Eastern Fathers agree that Scripture is not the proper source of knowldedge of God?
Do you find the Eastern Fathers to be a source of knowledge about God? Where do you think the Cappadocians learned about the Trinity, if not Scripture?
To these I responded,
Jay,
You asked if I believe that the Eastern Fathers think that Holy Scripture is the scource for knowledge about God.
No. The Holy Scriptures are not, per se, a source of anything outside the liturgical/ascetical context of Orthodoxy. You missed my point, but my Orthodox readers will not. If you are going to have a dialogue with Orthodox Christians, you have to leave your analogia fidae presuppositions at the door, because Eastern Fathers (many are alive today) do not simply approach the Bible with unclean hands in order to “discover” the truth about God. The Bible does not contain concepts about God which can be extracted in a scholastic manner. It is a sacred text which is quite dangerous when wrenched from its Orthodox liturgical/ascetical context.
Your epistemology begins with Bible quotes, but that method is out-of-bounds for the Orthodox, who know that in order to be deified, one must experience the same inspiration which led the Fathers to write the Bible and the patristic texts. The Eastern Orthodox Fathers quote the Scripture because they are in a position to interpret it, since they are also glorified prophets. Words are not glorification, but can only lead one to glorification in the context of corporate liturgical ascesis and spiritual fathering. How many spiritual lives have been stunted and stymied through your method of “proof texting” unOrthodox presuppositions about God and spirituality?
So, you would do well to question whether or not your ransacking the Bible and the Fathers for quotes to back up your foregone conclusions is the proper methodology for reaching any kind of truth. You should do your Roman Catholic spiritual guides a favor and plainly state, point by point, your epistemological presuppositions, and then I’ll state mine, and we will see whose approach makes sense in terms of sacred texts and deification.
You are too smart and conscientious a guy to follow the schoolmen in their foolish “proto-sola scriptura” methods.
James
Oh , by the way,
The Cappadocians did not learn about God from Scripture, but through glorification, which is preceded by purification and illumination of the heart. Do you really think that the prophets of the Old Testament or the Apostles (especially St. Stephen, whose face glowed with uncreated glory) sat on their hands waiting for a book to tell us about God when their pure hearts already reflected the resplendence of God Himself?
In the context of a Church which knows what glorification is, the Bible is indeed sacred, but you would have to humble yourself and accept an Orthodox spiritual guide and live in our liturgical life to even begin to make assertions about what the Bible means.
Remember, I want to know about your epistemological presuppositions. Let your priests help you if you have trouble.
James
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